…Is that a complaint about complaints?
I’m puzzled by the idea that because there is a proliferation of arguably undesirable posts, one is obliged to accept them quietly. If certain types of post (and the manner of their delivery) are negatively affecting a community, it seems completely justified that these problems should be registered and discussed.
Similarly, the fact that there are some forum users who don’t follow Gearbox rules, or find it above / beneath themselves to read them, doesn’t invalidate those rules or make anyone obliged to put up with pointless, negative, abusive, excessively hot-tempered, or otherwise problematic posts.
Telling people to just skip over posts they don’t like completely misses the point here… Yes, gaming communities can suck. They don’t have to, and they shouldn’t, and for the most part this forum is a shining example of in-touch devs and a dedicated, patient, solicitous player-base who are committed to keeping feedback productive.
Nobody said you are obliged to do it. It is always a choice. Acceptance that forums are as they are (and will always will be without moderators) and ignoring is just the more efficient way. The nice thing about Gearbox forums is the profanity filter…though sometimes, I wonder which word was used
Verbal abuse and posts getting too personal, use of profanities, these are the things that should get flagged or deleted by moderators but even they are human beings. Can’t be at 1000 places at the same time. So things can’t always be moderated in real time if the persons posting such stuff don’t moderate themselves. Just not needed in a civil forum.
You either ignore it or flag it to leave it to the moderators to check. You always have a choice. Yes, exactly that, quality feedback is always a must. And it is very nice to see the team interacting with people. It shows that they care about their customers and are working hard to make things right.
I like this, no one ever realizes that you ALWAYS have a choice. Everything we do in this life is in fact a choice we make.
If only that were true… (descends into deep existential considerations).
Anyway, my general point is that even though one can always choose to ignore problematic or negative forum behaviour (and that’s usually better than getting into flame wars) I still think it’s worth asking that the community try and keep positive.
I love how games can integrate community feedback - it’s something that makes gaming really unique as a medium, and an opportunity you don’t usually get with e.g. books (I dread to think what would happen if the authors I write commentary on took my ideas seriously!). But there’s still a big difference between constructive engagement and furious diatribes about how the game has somehow personally wronged you. That way feedback and discussion is something creative and productive, rather than consumers demanding a perfect service from a product they’ve bought. Games are art, they deserve more than that. Most games, anyway…
Pretty solid post.
My go-to method of coercing buddies to try a game is casually talking about how much I enjoy it.
I don’t tell them to buy it, I don’t ask them to try it, I just talk about it occasionally, maybe throw a screenshot or vid in our group hangouts.
That “excitement” buzz is REALLY damn contagious. It also makes for a more pleasurable experience when getting into the game.
What becomes the downfall of anything in the history of anything is what’s wrong about something. People don’t recall the good things, the positives of something as easily as they recall the negatives. That’s just plain fact.
When you’re community is acting like people in this one someone comes to the forums and all they see is “fix this!” “I’m leaving cuz of this!” “Nerf!” “Unfair!” Etc. It’s a major negative atmosphere for people researching the game.
This is a good post.
I’m against the growing notion that people shouldn’t complain, though. I think that’s wrong. I do, however, agree that attitude and presentation of the complaint matters.
Let me put a point over to you about why criticism matters.
My partner is an artist. What I have been told is that I should criticise because if I don’t, they won’t grow as an artist. I shouldn’t be worried about sparing feelings as that just creates greater paranoia at the end of the day. Only through constructive criticism does an artist feel like they’re improving.
< OscarMike > Constructive criticism is important! I offer constructive criticism! < /OscarMike >
Not only this, but there’s more than just one person working on Battleborn. If the mechanics guys screwed up the game so that it fell into obscurity, the designers, writers, and artists alike would feel pretty bummed about that, I’d say. I want to take them into account too if I genuinely feel like the mechanics / balancing guys are flubbing something.
So, attitude is important. But so is constructive criticism! I think that the experience we’ve had as gamers over the years can be helpful. My perspectives on ham-fisted nerfs might be qutie useful to as even though I don’t post in every community, I do read a lot. And so many of my favourite games butchered their own PvE community by nerfing too hard, too fast.
I look back on some of those games and whilst, yes, I feel genuine anger about how those games died because of misguided balancing efforts, I don’t let that turn into bitterness aimed towards balancing teams in new games. But I am left feeling like I need to warn them if I’m seeing that pattern of destruction repeat. I’ll implore that they reconsider their actions, but I won’t rage.
Frankly, I’m too old for rage.
So I think that the title of this thread is perhaps even more important than the contents. In my opinion the contents do seem to discourage any complaining and that’s the wrong way to go about it. You do need to do that sometimes just to keep a game alive.
What I’d say is this: Keep your complaints focused, clear, valid, readable, constructive, and reasonable. And write them in a way that isn’t openly aggressive. If you can do that, you’re fine.
I only ask if it’s normal, because I’m pretty sure a growing number of people buy a game after the first month, because the price has dropped by then. Not to mention, there are those kinds of people who played the betas, and decided that was enough for them.
Sales are affected by interest too. Unfortunately, Gearbox doesn’t spend much in the realm of Marketing, so it’s difficult for them to attract interest from outside this community. That’s not even mentioning how many games they’re competing with right now.
They definitely came out at a bad time.
What continues to frustrate me (I just read some forums and threads on other sites) is how badly people are bashing the game. People complaining of the matchmaking I understand but people are saying battleborn looks ugly??? People saying theres no PVP tutorial and the learning curve is too much for them to spend time on?? I know it’s hard for new players now because they’re not able to queue with other new players because there’s so few newbies. I understand Battleborn has its problems but none of them are so detrimental like people make it seem.
I’ve never had inexcusable wait times in matchmaking. People leaving isn’t something Gearbox can fix (unless they’re leaving due to wait times but I never wait more than 5 mins max).
A ton of people have connection issues which could be Gearbox but it could also be their WiFi or internet connection.
I don’t like hearing friends or people online say that they’re not buying the game because some people online played 1 hour and said it sucked…
Social media has been good but also bad for this game. People can’t seem to take time in a game and give a proper review. Others play a little or just watch videos of it and say “omg it sucks” “it’s not what i expected” “it’s not overwatch” “it’s crap” instead of detailing the pros and cons of Battleborn in a civil manner.
I wasn’t worried for Battleborn but the more new and usually negative feedback coming around has me concerned.
Would Gearbox consider dropping Battleborn updates to save money? I mean think about it. If they keep adding new content and updating then they’re using time, money, and valuable resources but if their player base doesn’t go up then they’re gonna take a huge hit. The more they put into it and the less they get out may harm them.
The price hasn’t officially dropped, there was a weekend 40% sale. You can still get Battleborn for 40$ on ebay though.
That stats do not include beta numbers. Measurements clearly start on May 3rd.
In terms of gameplay, Battleborn didn’t compete with anyone. Unfortunately, game reviewers coined the term “hero shooter”, making pretty much any fps with characters in it grouped under the same subgenre. Because of that, Overwatch competed with Battleborn. However, I think Overwatch was the only AAA cross-platform game that Battleborn competed with. If you feel like Battleborn competed with other games, please post them here.
Sometimes posting while mad can help relieve stress by communicating like ideas/experiences with others.
One should try to keep a level head whilst doing so though, and check for previously created topics to avoid spam. This way it seems less like complaining and more like discussing a general idea regardless of +/-
Complaining is only inherently bad when one does so without any regard as to receiving/discussing differing opinions though, imo.
Complaints tend to sprout from misinformation; so any topic combating that can surely be viewed as at least relevant in that regard.
This may be true… but the Battleborn forums aren’t a therapy group that you can come to and vent to put yourself in a better mood. I’m sure there are a lot of places on the internet where you can go and do that. Posting while mad to get yourself some emotional catharsis is still bad for the community and bad for the game, because any intelligent feedback is lost and it tends to make other users either irritated or upset. It’s poor communication, and if people are genuinely here to improve the game (and their experience of it), then giving some thought to communicating effectively, rather than just wanting to rage at the world for your own sake, is the only way to actually help the game.
Granted, that’s why I said sometimes and what I said after the quoted excerpt. Taking that single sentence out of context without regard for the rest of what I said makes it out to be the sole thought, when it certainly is not.
I was merely indicating that there can be more aggressive posts that can also be well thought out without being blatant word spam, attention seeking, drama inciting, drivel.
Edit: To make things even more clear; reiterates thread title
My thoughts weren’t a personal attack on your post. I agree with most of what you said. I was talking about the forums in general (and engaging with one of the issues you brought up).
I did not take it as such; merely wished to convey my point in another fashion, if not fine-tune it.
I’m replying to myself again because several people seem to have taken the view that this thread is about whether or not someone has a right to complain or even if complaining while enraged is somehow helpful to the community.
My view is that if a reasonable person comes to the BB forum to see if this is a game worth their money and time and more than 50% of the threads are complaints about what is wrong with the game, that person would likely think twice about buying the game and/or joining the community.
The title of this thread is still my main concern. Attitude. Attitude when discussing the game with other players, attitude when reporting issues to the developers, attitude when playing the game, and attitude when talking to people who may be interested in playing.
I think, as far as data gathering goes, polls are useful in that players can be surveyed to see how many people have experienced a particular issue without every single person starting a new thread to complain about the same thing.
Personally, I love this game and have played it virtually every night since it came out. I’ve met some great people through playing it. I have experienced a few game-breaking glitches and also one or two aggravating aspects of gameplay itself. However, if I were shopping around, trying to figure out where to spend my gaming budget and I came here first, there is no way in hell I would buy BB, simply because the (forum posting) community is so negative and often viciously so.
Perhaps GBX can create a bug-reporting subforum as a sort of complaints depot so the rest of us can actually begin to enjoy discussing gameplay?
I would bring that up with @JoeKGBX as he is the one most likely to be behind setting that up if they decide to add something like that.
That’s a great idea, and something I’m surprised hasn’t been done already. I’ve been wanting to report bugs, including small ones (such as how some characters don’t appear on the final team lineup screen when someone has disconnected from the game) but didn’t know where to do this for it to be seen.
@JoeKGBX if this was to be implemented, something like how they do it on the XenForo forums works well.
(see XenForo Bug Reports section)
One bug per thread (makes it easier to track than multiple bugs in a single thread). Duplicate bug reports are closed. Resolved bugs are move to a Resolved forum.
It’s works really well, enabling the community to identify bugs and the XenForo team to know what the issues are more easily and to deal with them.