#104

@korben44 I appreciate it and I didn’t mean to be patronizing either. I seriously am happy that you and others enjoy GTD and are successful at it. I know not every bit of content is for everyone. If the jumps were a bit more forgiving, I’d enjoy it more. As it is, I’m pretty happy with my Moze AB build and as I get better at clearing the mobs, it won’t be so punishing redoing the jumps. I do want to have one full completion under my belt before BL4 comes out!

@PuppyOfDoom But…but…how…where do I get said webslinger? :thinking:
:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

1 Like
#105

I have a few problems with the Guardian Takedown. The first is the enemy health. I realized that they had scaled this back from what it was originally, but I am having a hard time managing my ammo because vending machines are few and far between and the enemies are still spongy. I like to play on Mayhem 6 and my builds are fine to run that content, but with this takedown I can’t damage the enemies enough that ammo is a huge problem. The only solution I have is to lower the difficulty, but then any rewards I get will not be scaled to M6. It also feels cheap to run lower mayhem levels with higher mayhem gear, so it’s not even satisfying.

The second issue I have is the crystals. This portion clearly was not made with balance of how many players in mind. You have the same amount of time to clear these puzzles as a solo player versus a group of 4. This makes no sense. I realize that takedowns were originally designed to be full party co-op end game content to begin with, but they re-balanced the Maliwan Takedown based on the community feedback that it was harsh for solo players and that takedown I found to be relatively easy and manageable. This is something very different though.

Third, the lack of new-U stations in general. For some reason they decided that the takedown structure needed to have a one size fits all approach and you only get a new-u at the halfway point after you clear the mid-boss. The takedown is longer and has more hazards in it than the first, so this approach just doesn’t make sense to me. The jumping puzzles are fine, but the fact that the only spawn points you have being at the beginning or in the middle are brutal. Especially for just simply not being able to mantle correctly, which is somewhat clunky in this game (that radio tower in the Anvil killed me a lot for this reason). I believe it was briefly mentioned that they discussed putting in a respawn point outside of Wotan’s arena on the Borderlands Show which is still something I think they should do for that, but this one especially needs that. I think repetition is the best way to learn a bosses mechanics. If you have to spend 20 minutes fighting back to the boss after failing, you won’t be able to really do that. In addition, if you are playing as a party and one of you falls to your death after Anathema, you are just stuck in spectator mode the rest of the time. You won’t get to fight Scourge and you just sit there and watch people play. I realize we have streaming services if we want to watch people play, but when you are supposed to be playing it’s not particularly fun. I’m okay with the content being made challenging, but please stop applying one size fits all approaches to them and try to use a little bit of logic so there is a balance. A few more checkpoints, especially outside of Scourge’s arena, will go a long way for that.

2 Likes
#106

Well the GTD was a result of angry devs, who had posters and streamers crying for a widescale weapon nerf. So GBX gave them what they cried out for - an imbalanced super hard takedown, and a widescale nerf. It’s funny how these posters are oddly quiet now, as are some of the streamers.

I think the devs finally calmed down a little and buffed the action skills a little.

1 Like
#107

What nerf are you talking about? The only recent one I can think of was the change to spawning multiple projectiles with ASE elements

#108

Before that. The one that nerfed the Kaoson and others.

And it should read “Unbalanced”

#109

Oh right and the sandhawk. That one didn’t bother me too much as they were already powerful outliers. As it is they’re still among the best weapons

#110

While I don’t like it nearly as much as the Maliwan takedown I haft to say the defense objectives are a cool idea that was implemented fairly well the enemy scaling is wonky with Mayhem mode making it much more challenging then the Maliwan take down which I do not really agree with.

Both Bosses are alright. They are the right amount of frantic but both of them could lay off the knock back and spend a bit less time trying to sit on your face.

The platforming is something else. When doing this online with friends it can be damn infuriating when a laggy moving platform doesn’t let you mantle. I’m unsure if this was an attempt at a Destiny parody or if it was honestly something they though added to the experience. I am fine with big jumps or platform that are farther apart to give you a sence that this is a destroyed planet but random moving/ vanishing platforms feels like trolling instead of a fun parody. That issue is compounded by the fact that true takedown is ment for a 4 man team and latency is a sizable issue on console.

I don’t think the jump to refill ammo is at all ok. It may be fairly easy to land but it again feels like trolling designe which us unwelcoming to people making there first attempts and may turn people off of making subsequent attempts.

Over all I didn’t hate it but it isn’t going to be a place I frequent unless I know I can demolish enemies easily to minimize my time spent.

3 Likes
#111

I’ve been working on a Moze and Amara duo to tackle the Takedown and I’ve gotten better and faster at clearing areas. I can make it to the first boss, usually with both characters. I’ve even made it to the last boss a few times.

Unfortunately one of those times the game locked up. I have yet to beat him though. First time died after getting his first armor bar down (right after jumping back from the teleport). The second time crashed. Third time, almost got the second armor bar cleared, but got knocked off the edge while in FFYL, so no jumping/grappling/mantling/whatever.

I have yet to get Moze to the final boss. Something about the platforms right after clearing the crystals gets me (her). And I swear, her jumps are shorter than Amara’s, except for the last platforms. Moze always sails over the first one. Maybe I’m over compensating since she seems to struggle with the others.

Still, I think I can beat it, so I’m going to keep going on M10 with split-screen. I’m gave up on the true takedown mode. The number of enemies knocking me back is just too much at the crystals. Might be easier if I went solo (especially since Moze can’t clear those last jumps), but I’m a glutton for punishment it seems.

Oddly, the second set of three crystals is a lot easier to clear for me than the first one. I think there are way too many of the explody-red-heads on the first set of three. Plus the first area seems a lot harder than the area right after the first boss. But I’m going to keep trying until I get my webslinger. After that, I’ll probably never touch it again, except to maybe get a good Stinger. Still not my favorite and definitely feels less rewarding (for as far as I’ve made it) than MTD.

I don’t like it, but maybe…maybe I don’t hate it…as much now.

#112

Guardian Takedown Completed!

Finally completed the GTD for the first time, M10, split-screen running Moze and Amara. Thunderstorms had moved in, so I finished, looted, and logged off in case I lost power. Just got back on to see what I got.

Moze still has yet to make it to the final boss location. She fell just below the last platform jump, ended up on a ledge. But the Skee-orge teleported me, my Moze came along for the ride. Got back into the fight. Then the second teleport, Moze ended up in limbo for a while, then appeared back in the arena while Amara was still clearing the area she was ported to. But it all worked out. Good guys/gals won, bad guys ate dirt.

Over all, ended up with a Stinger, 2 Lightspeeds, a Smog, and a Backburner, the rest was junk (even with the buffs). I’ll keep trying for the webslinger and a better Stinger. Even after knowing it’s doable, I still don’t care for the Guardian Takedown. Sure, it’s challenging, but it’s not fun. MTD is fun and challenging.

But I still don’t know why some jumps seem harder than others or why sometimes I can grab a ledge and other times I have to spam the action button or hop around while twisting in the air. I hope GBX takes all of the feedback and produces a more enjoyable experience for the next takedown.

2 Likes
#113

I’ve got no problem with the platforming sections. They add nice variety and really enhance the sense of physical scale of the game. They’re pretty easy, too IMO - I don’t think I’ve died on them once.

On the other hand, I absolutely despise the way the guardians barge into you and can push you off the map. You’re basically a sitting duck for them since you’re forced to sit in the same spot while the crystals charge. So many times I’ve been knocked off the edge without even knowing who did it because they were behind me while I was busy shooting some other guy.

I even kind of like that the guardians can have that kind of power, and keep me on my toes. I like a challenge and I don’t like being too powerful. But to put this mechanic into a takedown where every cheap fall can cost you 45 minutes of repetitive trekking? Man, it’s annoying.

2 Likes
#114

I tried GTD with my friends, and we only beat the first boss on effectively 3 runs. Some of the challenge was finding the right mix of mayhem modifiers because WE CAN’T SELECT THEM. ehm.

The platforms are a problem for one, but we may have solved that with changing his mantling options. There’s a platform that you have to turn into, and it’s a pain.

But the really frustrating part is getting knocked away while you’re trying to revive someone. Reviving is still a PITA. The target area is too small, often I just end up reloading or picking up (or worse equipping) some junk gear. And if I do get my buddy targeted and start reviving, it’s impossible to stay next to them.

The range should be larger, the game should prioritize revive over looting. I’m split on reloading, but maybe have those as options, where you can order them as you like. It should be harder for the enemies to push you away. Or if you get out of range, you should be able to move back and have the revive start up automatically where you left off.

Oh, why not just let us auto-revive if we are next to the player? Have it work like how the crystal charging works. You just need to be in range of them. Maybe auto-reviving works slower, or only keeps them from bleeding out. Actively reviving them should be faster, much faster than it is. You’re losing DPS and often are in a horrible spot, like AoE damage.

Regardless of the solution, the current revive system isn’t good enough for GTD. And nevermind the missed jumps. Which sure, some people have no problem with them. But unlike the combat areas, there’s no way to revive the player.

2 Likes
#115

Its like you have 58 skill points to invest, and none of it revolves around platforming. Pretty much none of the gear either. And then you have these massive platforming sections? It’s just ridiculously out of place here, and adds completely nothing to the looter shooter experience.

4 Likes
#116

And I found out first hand that when you grab a moving platform, your character doesn’t move with it. So you have to “lean into” the platform to ensure you grab it. Even then, sometimes I just seem to fail to grab it or slide right off.

#117

Ran it again last night. Solo melee FL4K. Tbh, combat with this build is easy peasy. I even managed the platforming bits at the first attempt (my least favourite mechanic).

Not a single dedicated drop and zero M6 drops.

Pathetic.

#118

So I’ve just finished the GT again on M10. This is the 3rd time now since release. Just because it’s so underwhelming. I really like the level itself I don’t mind the platforming, it’s a bit different to the rest of the game. It’s just massively time consuming for very little rewards. 3rd time complete and ZERO takedown specific items have dropped for me. What’s the point.

I remember the first time I finished it and I was really stoked to complete it then just meh no drops. I just couldn’t be bothered to do it again.

Then the second time after a break from it, it didn’t take me as many deaths but still a long time to get through it for nothing.

I’ve just tried again today after taking another break from it. I died a couple of times in the first half while I was getting used to it again then cleared it all the way through without dying. It still took quite a while to complete it. Zero drops again. The only reason I came back was because they supposedly added m6+ drops to it, I thought I could pick up some m6+ and takedown gear. Nope, just world drop stuff I can get anywhere.

I haven’t even got to the RNG on item parts yet.

Surely this is basic stuff? How long has the takedown been live for now? Until this week’s hotfix the G-takedown items were trash. It’s taken till now to make 1 item in it viable, you’ve had to add M6 gear to give people a reason to play it. Still even now the items don’t drop!

At least put an m6 item after each of the crystals and a few dedicated items per boss. Last time I completed MT I got x2 tiggs, a redist and a kybs from Wotan. Which of the 2 takedowns would you play on those gear odds?

1 Like
#119

Are you using the stinger with Action Skill Start-trigger break/fill? I’m still trying to get it. And I know by the time I do, there will be a level cap increase. :rofl:

Can you post your build or link it? I’m looking for a new Flak build. If I can’t avoid using a pet, even better. But I don’t think that path is viable.

1 Like
#120

I use the frozen heart. Here is my updated build:

1 Like
#121

I saw all about it and I did not try it as was full of issues, unjustified difficulty and totally unrewarding. I came back after months in Destiny 2, mainly for GT and new DLC.

The DLC I think is the best so far, better story and story telling, dynamic and rewarding. Better than anything which includes the shallow and childish main story. So, this together with the latest patches/hot fixes I start to have hopes again for the game.

I tried new builds and it was fun. Still, the weapons balance is way off, but much better than 2 month ago when I stop playing.

I farmed for some Level 60 weapons and did a few true Maliwan Takedown runs. Even though in M10 I still see green and even white items dropping (especially in DLC), and legendary either still not scaled or not yet buffed, it was a fun experience and relatively rewarding. Many anointments still makes no sense for some weapons or weapons types, but better than before (it took me a bit less than 16h to get the right combination for my shotgun… anyhow).

So, I felt good and confident that my Amara is now ready to tackle the Guardian Takedown! What a mistake I did.

Guardian takedown which practically have a single item that worth consider especially for Zane, for a solo player is a waste of time from any perspective .

Maybe I’m biased as I hate jumping puzzles and even more pointless ones. GT environment design is a very imaginative and good one. However, I guess was targeting masochist players as is pointlessly unforgiving.

I get the mechanic in which you need to achieve something in order to progress but I don’t get when you need to kill stuff for no reason. If i want that I go in M0 with M10 red suit to show them how a god looks like.

And there is a single checkpoint… Kill again the stupid fauna, juggle position and charge crystals, do an idiotic jumping puzzle, miscalculate by a millimeter a jump and start from the beginning. In this moment you deleted the fun from the equation.

I don’t think failing, outside of combat, to send you at the beginning of the encounter, is something that should ever be implemented. Is not only not fun, it’s idiotic. Look at Destiny. You fail the encounter with the boss, that encounter is restarted. You don’t die at Calus and send you to garden.

Even so, once all enemies are killed, falling should reset the puzzle not the whole damn massacre. Even in Maliwan Takedown at Valkyrie is the same. However, you are there in combat. In GT is worst. If in MT there are places where you can fall off the map, are only a few, but falling would most probably be due to player’s being too cocky or zealous. In GT this is purposely designed so and that is bad. Why platforms suddenly appear after killing some fauna is beyond me. Why the platforms are translucent, moving and with a few millimeters tolerance for jump, is cruel and pointless. I never died in any encounter but from jumping puzzles outside combat. And after a while of repeating same content it becomes boring like hell. And for what? For a maybe to get the weapon I want (that will most probably have the wrong attributes and anointment). So, I gave up. Once is enough and I did not got the SMG. I don’t think I will even bother to play even the DLC with Zane and Fl4k. GT took away the little excitement I had. In a couple of months I will check again. From November though, Destiny 2 Beyond Light is coming and I doubt that Borderlands will offer anything to lure me from there. A DLC is fun for a week tops, if done with all four characters. But after that there is only a bit of farm and then… nothing.

As promised in my last post, I came back when the pulse in the community was good. And it is a good one, and for good reason, the last DLC which I also love. But… Skill trees are still not fully working as described. Fl4k still juggles second winds more than Amara casts phasegrasps… still too many weapons useless or inefficient unless specific situation and/or build… still no build save / load… Nah…

Such a shame… such a waste…

5 Likes
#122

And just to add another one… Three consecutive runs without even one dedicated drop.

This is so not fun…

1 Like
#123

That’s criminal. Even on M0, you should get something (at M0 level of course). And I only want two items for the memes. For actual game play, there are much better drops from much easier targets.

So GTD is either a waste of time or poorly balanced in the effort/reward department.