#41

The quest giving you a freebie after wasting however much time and cash is, uh . . . not the point I was making. My point was that platforming exists (and also, the Guardian Takedown is not the first place it’s used) and that the frustration arises from how punishing it can feel during gameplay.

1 Like
#42

Platforming is fine
My point was that platforming exists

So which one is it?

#43

If you want to misquote me, then I’m out. Enjoy ranting.

1 Like
#44

How’s that misquoting lmao. It’s a full stop after ‘fine’. Platforming being fine and platforming existing is not mutually inclusive.

#45

I have no idea what you guys are even talking about.

#46

Well…

Here is the full quote.

  1. Not anywhere in this quote is “platforming is fine”
  2. What was quotes are talking about different things. @Gorbles was trying to make the point that platforming has been in the borderlands series for a while and has not been complained about (on a large scale) before GTD.
1 Like
#47
  1. The quotes are from two different posts, respectively.
  2. People never complained about platforming in borderlands series because those weren’t so atrociously implemented as they are in gtd. In borderlands 2’s dlc, it was taken as a joke and you would get an auto complete if you failed several times, so people had nothing to complain about. Here, you lose half a raid worth of progress if you misstep and it’s worse because climbing on ledges isn’t dynamical (e.g. if the platform moves away from you, your character will try to climb at the location the platform was when you started the climb animation, so if you ended the animation and the platform wasn’t there, you’d fall to death).

And as a side note, platforming is pretty much universally hated in most video games. Tying platforming to a raid worth of progress was the worst game design decision I have seen in a long time.

2 Likes
#48

The only time I have died to the platforming was when I didn’t mantle as Moze. Every other VH has movement speed which makes the platforming trivial.
I will say that it shouldn’t be a death but a spawn of more enemies.

And quoting 2 separate post is misquoting. They are separate and are explained as to why it is said in each post.

#49

I love Maliwan Takedown, it’s basically a Trial map on steroids: kill lots of stuff, fight a boss (or bosses.)

I’ve completed the GT a few times but I’m really reluctant to run it as much as MT because of, you guessed it, the platforming. I’ve never fallen off, but just the thought of it is a deterrent. I like the rest of it just fine… even the tons of Anathema’s immunity phases don’t bug me as much as I thought they would (at least during those immunity phases, the enemy is actually doing something you need to react to (run away from expanding death spehere) rather than just sitting there making yelling noises for five minutes while you look at your watch (hi Rampager you annoying buttface.)

#50

The thing stopping me is the unnecessary killing of every single bullet sponge of an enemy before you can progress. I accept the platforming, if I fall I fall, but fighting the waves of enemies for absolutely nothing is disheartening. If I could pay with eridium or cash to skip to the boss fight I would but the long fights prior for no reason just to get 3 bad (long musket xl) guns from both bosses combined on m10.
The boss fights themselves are amazing IMO.

1 Like
#51

It’s clearly the worse of both takedowns, and in my opinion here’s why:

  • Crystal charging. This is actually a clever way of splitting the forces between the crystals which leads to a onslaught tug-of-war with the guardians to keep them out of the charging area. However, when the forces are down to a single person, both Guardians’ presence or charging time don’t scale down.

  • Platforming. A fall is far too punishing since it’s about double the lenght of the Maliwan takedown but with the same number of checkpoints. Even worse when auto-mantle doesn’t work properly at times. Also the vanishing platforms are kind of a d*** move.

  • Bosses. Both the Valkyrie Squad and Wotan never repeat the same phase through a fight, except for a few similarities in 2 phases on each. Anathema and Scourge are way too repetitive in their phases. Both fights involve a lot of both of them charging their energy while immune and the Vault Hunter either running for another platform (Anathema) or finding cover (Scourge). Although I have to say I had a little WTF moment when Scourge teleported me away the first time I fought him, that was cool.

  • Dedicated Loot Drops. I think I got through the Guardian Takedown about 10 times already and I’ve only seen an Asclepius shield twice and a Globetrotter once. Almost everytime I defeated Scourge I saw him drop only a few non-anoited World drops, which stops me from taking him on more often. I remember that the Maliwan Takedown received an update to mitigate this particular issue on their bosses, so we’ll probably see a fix in this one as well .

2 Likes
#52

Until just a few days ago, I had only really run it a few times with friends. But recently, I decided that I wanted to try to solo it. So far, I’ve done it with 3/4 VHs and its actually been way more fun and rewarding than I thought. It’s no Maliwan Takedown, but jumping parts aside, it’s not AS bad as I originally thought. I’d probably run it a few more times tonight.

Zane - Clone/Drone
Transformer, Pearl, Redistributors, Flipper, AAA

Moze - Blue/Green
Old God, Deathless, Bloodletter, Cloning Maddening Tracker, various ARs

Amara - Ties That Bind
Initiative shield, Knife Drain artifact, Facepuncher

#53

Fair enough. I feel that 3D platforming had reached it’s peak around the PS2 era. I was more talking about the beginnings of it such as Mario 64 and such. That isn’t so say I didn’t love me some M64, BanjoKazooie, etc. I most certainly did, but your point about this game not being optimized mechanically for such things stands firm.

1 Like
#54

I have beaten the Guardian Takedown multiple times with Moze and with Zane. It isn’t that bad to run through but I definitely agree on the checkpoints since it take so long to beat if you happen to die.

As for the platforming, only the first part with invisible blocks is annoying but you can’t die from those anyway.

The second set with invisible blocks don’t even move and the third set of invisible blocks can be skipped entirely with any VH as long as you are using the Speed Demon modifier from the Mayhem modifiers.

As for the crystals, 3 out of 4 VH can easily beat those areas.

  • With Zane you use the clone and set him outside of the charging area with a clear view of the enemies and make sure he has a good gun. He will distract a lot of the enemies and kill a lot of the one his own.

  • With Moze, you just use the Rocketeer Com and you can place it off the charging area, or take advantage of a probable glitch by leaving Auto-Bear on the charging area and climbing into the turret by speccing into Dakka Bear. The crystal will keep charging regardless if enemies step in the area and you won’t take damage since you are in the turret.

  • With FL4K you just need to use Gamma Burst + Red Fang and summon him near where the portals. For some reason the taunt from Gamma Burst works extremely well in the Guardian Takedown and you may not even have enemies head over to the charging area.

The main things I would want changed are that they increase the drop rate of the unique drops, add MH6 drops to the bosses, buff the unique weapons you get from the Takedown, and remove half of the invincible phases the first boss has.

#55

I just noticed this post. FYI when Scourge starts charging for his blast, get close to Scourge so that the enemies that explode head towards you begin their exploding animation. When they explode they force Scourge out of his invincibility phase and you get an opening to do solid damage. It is even better if the second one explodes after he is forced out of the invincibility phase as the explosion will take off a chunk of his health.

#56

I am aware of that, thank you :slight_smile:. But my point is about the repetitiveness of Anathema and Scourge’s actions during a fight compared to the Valkyrie Squad and Wotan’s, not the approach the Vault Hunter can take.

#57

I don’t mind fighting Scourge since you can’t fall into a pit while you are fighting him and you can force him out of the invulnerability phase but I agree on Anathema. They should cut half of the invulnerability phases he has.

1 Like
#58

Agreed, he has two armor and one shield bar, and what feels like 2-3 immunity phases for each. Though I have noticed that with the adds, as long as I can track them, going down isn’t so bad. The only time I couldn’t recover was jumping between platforms and getting hit by a blast. That was F*ING TRAGIC!! as my favorite muscle head would say.

1 Like
#59

The jumping in Dragon Keep wasn’t platforming. Please. Hell the whole point was Mordy’s “I hate jumping puzzles” line (Which ironically has been forgotten) and the game did not penalize you in either time (you respawned right at the start of the jump ) or resources ( you didn’t really “die”) for failure. It was a joke so of course no one complained. The actual platform-ish bit was the massive mound of suck that was the crusher puzzle and I certainly will complain about that hunk of junk. Still, as big a piece of trash as that was at least when it insta-killed you it didn’t send you back to some far off save point it put you right back at the start of the puzzle.

In 3 we have the crappy jumping bit in GL&T with the dumb moving platform For the Scholar fight which people definitely complained about and like the GTD it was part of the main quest line so you couldn’t avoid. Most of the other jumpy, parkourish trash in BL3 were avoidable - I’m looking at you radio tower in the Anvil (a map that a level and encounter designer need to be flogged savagely for building for so many reasons this among them).

1 Like
#60

This trend of “I don’t like it so it’s bad design” is one thing, but “I don’t like it so insert depiction of violence against another person here” is just downright worrying.

3 Likes