Zane is seriously awful and MH3 is nearly impossible with him without perfect gear

Haven’t finished leveling him yet, but by all accounts his build discussion seems to fall on the divide of “Under Cover and Hitman is better” or “Hitman and Doubled Agent is better”. So either full offense or defense/utility and offense, and I’ve seen plenty of videos/explanations for both having their merits, but it does all seem to boil down to needing the proper equipment for it all to work right.

I do think making Cryo effects a utility for him is a boon rather than a hindrance, Brain Freeze with an Incendiary Conference Call makes a laughing stock of pretty much every mobbing area and wave challenge I’ve seen and played myself so far. And that way you still get proper damage matching with Anointed enemies rather than relying on the Cryo element itself.

In that regard, personally, I think one of his issues is that he has no other utility support for it other than just blatantly freezing enemies, period. Frozen enemies take huge damage bonuses for critical, melee and explosive(splash) damage, yet Zane has no skills that boost these at all. He’s reliant on the random affixes you can get on class mods and relics, and hunting down those and fitting Anointments just loop back to the same equipment reliance problem.

For non-Cryo related stuff, his kill skills are all very blase for how much reliance the core builds for him are for them. Making his reliance on movement speed part of his boosts to gun damage, but Moze is the only one who can shoot while sprinting? And while it’s not useless, shooting while sliding still has some pretty drastic aim issues if you aren’t using a shotgun. That one Dahl legendary that gets a fire rate boost while sliding I tried out with him, its constantly either all hit or all miss at higher speed and I ended up tossing it. I do like the idea of him being this manic sugar rush gun nut on the battlefield, but in practice it just falls short for everything but shotguns and assault rifles like the Ogre. And the numbers on pretty much all of them but Playing Dirty and Donnybrook are too lackluster for endgame.

That said I don’t think he’s entirely useless at the moment, but he definitely needs tweaking to be made more viable for Mayhem compared to the others. I really do think adding more support to his Cryo based abilities would be a good way to do it, but given how much retooling to his skill tree that’d take, I doubt we’ll see it happen.

frozen targets only take 3x melee damage in Bl3. In the prequel it buffed explosive and critical damage. Not in this game tho. If BL3 frozen reacted the way it did in the pre-sequel, Zane would be a very good character.

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But Frozen targets do take additional crit damage in BL3. That’s what makes Cryo Zane so good.

They literally don’t my dude. That why Zane is so bad. Zane would have been an amazing character in the pre-sequel tho

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Well I’ll just shut my mouth then, I went and double checked and you’re right.

My life is a lie dude

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i work in a shop and i can tell you they are not haha

Wait until the level cap increase watch him become the best.

I feel for you. It would be nice to be able to run more than a couple choice weapons/builds. Since bosses are almost all resistant to freeze I find that route limiting. The easiest build is the unlimited ammo scourge one that’s getting good results. I run my own version but with facepuncher on the clone, you get unlimited ammo cutpurse mod artifact and fast max terror stacks.(25%chance to get terror on melee attack). Any weapon can work just choosing between playing dirty ( slow high damage weapons) and violent violence. (Fast low dam /multiple shot ). The basic gear is easy to get facepuncher/cutpurse artifact and a big dam weapon like scourge. The proc terror on melee/sentinel gains life steal and such gear can take a while but can also wait. I do slaughter star at m3 with this build ( good gear, not optimized yet) and get to round 5 easy but now all the badass ghosts are just tough to deal with since scourge won’t fire at them. My amara is stronger but my Zane is a lot more fun than fl4k.

I thought that for a while too.

Figured out it just felt like that because 1. You can just lay into their crit spot while they’re frozen, since they aren’t moving, 2. I was usually running an Ice Breaker artifact while using Cryo builds, and 3. If I froze the enemy, that meant I had taken down a bunch of their shield, so if I was using a Cryo weapon, it would do more damage when the enemy went from shield to health bar.

So it was easy to think that crits were doing bonus damage since it was common to take several shots to freeze them and take their shield down, then kill them with one shot when they still have a full health bar.

This is not quite accurate. If you were talking about BL-TPS then all of it would be accurate but in BL3 only 1 part is. In Borderlands 3 only melee dmg gets a buff from freezing enemies, nothing else.

I VERY good point! I feel like they dropped the ball here. (Hey Gearbox, if you are reading this, can you give Zane Moze’s shoot while sprinting skill? Thanks!)

You mainly just have to know what you’re doing with Zane if you want to play him right. Theres plenty of build guides on YouTube that’ll help you. Right now I’m running just a Maggie, brainfreeze, and calm cool collected with a barrier and it makes the game a cake walk. A lyuda of course is what I use for big bosses, but it’s not necessary. His cryo build with a Maggie is seriously one of the best if not the best mobbing build currently in the game.

The barrier seems like the only action skill to help with survive ability but I can’t see through it even when not shooting thru it. Start shooting and I’m blind.

Yeah that’s probably my biggest issue with Zane, but it’s a complaint that could be applied to nearly every characters. I’d be surprised if Gearbox never tackle the issue.

Zanes barrier is the worst offender. Targets disappear. Add insult to injury - the green tree has accuracy and handling buffs as top tier abilities. Would be nice to spec into if I could see.

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I haven’t been doing bl3 lately, but after reading these conversations, I have something I want to say. In general, Zane feels the weakest and there are many difficulties without his barrier. But he is the most interesting character to play. It’s the fastest moving character that can draw your skill the most accurately on a white paper. If you are trained enough to use his fast-moving build, you can do everything in M3.

truly remarkable nonsense going on in this thread. and i am going to completely debunk this stuff with raw game play very soon.

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Now everyone should understand not everyone can play everyday for multiple hours to grind the perfect gear for a working build.

Now to remind GBX has said they want more build diversity so if there is one/two working Zane builds I would not count that as diversity.

Also again we need to compare him to the other VH’s, but even that is bit silly in a PvE game where you should be able to feel powerful, so having other VH’s who perform well can just but a damper on the fun when you know the others can do this, and more, and better.

So saying Zane is completely OK he has a build that works is like saying that your T-Model ford is fine while being passed by a speeding Ferrari.

They may have said that but looking back at the last few hotfixes it is the opposite.

Here is gameplay as promised not a single reload for modifiers all mayhem 3 no special items.

Just reading through this thread shows a lot of misunderstandings of the character IMO. There were a couple here who were spot on, and someone who recommended one of my videos (not one of the impressive ones either.) I have a youtube channel pretty much dedicated to Zane, here’s my channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpyLLLxBL7zL-f3P_D-bKGg

It showcases multiple different builds with multiple different weapon types, and more to come. When it comes to getting gear - you guys need to join trading discords. Nothing more to say about this, I do have multiple hours to farm unlike the rest of you, but I still get 75% of my gear from trading groups.

“cryo damage isn’t good against anointed or bosses” stop using cryo weapons. I literally have a whole video on it, you need to start smacking headshots with brain freeze.

“Mayhem 3 is too hard for him” “I don’t have good gear” Yeah, well play mayhem 2 lol, there’s no way you’re going to tell me that other characters can easily clear m3 without at least one good gun you can rely on. You can farm earls vending machine for great anointed items, then go farm mayhem 2 slaughter shaft/star.

I’m not saying a Zane buff wouldn’t be nice, but what I am saying is he’s very good regardless. Yes I will admit he is a bit gear reliant, but I also do think you can build around the gear that you do have. Playing dirty if you have a gun like the unforgiven, violent violence if you have a gun like shreddifier. You have to realize where his good skills are and what they pair with.

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