I’m not sure what you mean by sustained damage, I found Zero to be fine at op8 , though I’m not that good with his melee setup. I normally go the sniping tree route, even if I’m not sniping, because I like the gun damage boosts, I also run one of likely many gun based builds with the Leg Hunter COM…There’s at least one, maybe more, videos on youtube of a mid-range/melee combo hybrid build using the kitten assault rifles… I didn’t understand melee Krieg at op8 until I learned to use the roughrider shield to limit STV downing yourself, have enjoyed playing melee at op8 since that… Many great gun and explosive based builds for Krieg as well because of all of his magazine size and fire rate boosts… I think either can output high damage for mobbing/story missions, for most builds, Zero just requires more caution to use and has a more hit and run style whereas Krieg just gets in there and wrecks it… I liked taking both to op8 and then playing with different builds for both when I got there because you can play both of them in such a wide variety of ways, which is really unique in a shooter game
I’ve always strayed from stv, especially at op8, self damage is just too risky to me
The trouble is, it’s quite integral to Krieg’s power. Reliance on health gating at the OPs of course means that damage resistance and health preservation are key, so Silence the Voices becomes hazardous, but the other side of the coin is needing to kill enemies very efficiently, because even if you do no harm to yourself a midget will kill you in two hits. So ruling out self harm makes Krieg safer and you don’t have to pay so much attention to when you can get away with a risky melee, but in another way the huge loss of power from not hitting yourself (500% melee damage) or lighting on fire (100% gun and melee damage, with Leg Sickle) can make you vulnerable in practice.
Obviously melee Zer0 hasn’t been on Pandora long enough to have Krieg’s problems so you’re in for a safer ride with him. I love Krieg’s character and so I find his self-harm ‘skills’ just play it out to an even greater extent. And I like the extra challenge of being at risk from your own inner struggle as well as apocalyptic monsters/midgets.
I totally get that it’s ultimately personal preference of course. For me the craziness is part of what makes OP8 Krieg an awesome experience. And whether you go melee or Hellborn he is such a blast.
agreed on all counts here… I find I can’t do enough melee damage without STV, so only forgo it for certain gun or explosive builds (the fastball grenade build is a lot of fun)… basically Krieg is just fun period, I love all of his builds and don’t mind the occasional self-downing that occurs from time to time…Zero I feel makes me better at the game in general because my play has to be more technical and I can’t rely on get out of jail free cards like turrets/robot distraction, Release the Beast, Phaselocking, grog-harolding/Come At Me Bro etc…Zero does put out a lot of damage as long as you keep him safe enough, especially with being able to mark targets and then slam them out of Deception
Elemental Empathy works with all elements once you get delusional damage to set you on fire.
Also, it doesn’t matter if the fire damage from hellborn doesn’t scale well (which it does, just because the enemies scale up doesn’t mean fire’s +1.75 damage to flesh becomes less useful. If anything, Hellborn makes it better.) since the main purpose of the tree is to light yourself on fire to get the damage reduction, healing, and DPS boosts. The fact that Raving Retribution and Burn Baby Burn do even marginal damage is just a plus.
Also God bless Gibbed save editor, with it I was able to experiment with Zer0 with the right gear. He is really good when you have the right gear on him, however he still has problems. For instance if you can’t one shot your target or kill them in quickly, you are still pretty screwed due to his lack of survivability, so it is pretty decent but you can’t just run up to everyone hit them and things be as simple as that, which is actually a good thing, it feels pretty satifying to chain multiple assassinations which isn’t too difficult to do. I still have a lot of difficulty fighting enemies I can’t reach or who are in the air because of lack of cover I’m pretty much a sitting duck.
So even after witnessing Zer0’s power I can still appreciate Kreig, Btw how good is Bloodexplosion? A lot of the time I hear people say how overpowered it is and its too good to pass up. I get that the tree is all about enhancing his action skill, but I like the Hellborn & Mania build, not as powerful as Zer0’s melee build but I feel hellborn mania is more well rounded, hellborn enhances his gunplay, mania enhences his melee and both provide regen and tankyness.
So I’m going with Zer0 for now but next time I’ll go with Krieg, but I’ve seen bloodlust mania build too often on Krieg and I’m wondering am I missing out if I don’t get bloodexplotion?
You’ll be fine. Your damage potential won’t be as high without bloodsplosion, but you will have far more survivability.
Most Hellborn + Mania builds on the forums forego the bloodlust tree almost entirely. You still have enough points to get Bloodbath if you want though. http://bl2skills.com/psycho.html#50500500000050550000145150505140051
Here are some other hellborn + mania builds that have been tested at OP8.
thats pretty cool, I’m happy with Hellborn Mania build, I noticed that the damage reduction buffs while on fire and taste of blood skill reduce the damage from stv on yourself, with that his sustained damage is higher or close enough to Zer0’s while offering so much tankyness and mob control. But Zer0 I am starting to find more fun than Krieg, personal preference to his character as well Zer0 requires more work and skill to survive close up and pull of his ridiculous high damage attacks.
Something I feel I should correct. Roid damage does NOT boost self harm from Silence the Voices. The self harm is fixed based on level. The problem arrises at OP levels because Krieg’s axe keeps leveling, even if his health and skills do not. Even then, it’s not quite enough to down yourself in one hit. Believe me, I know, I use an OP8 Alkaline Hide of Terra. The real problem is when a couple of his Mania skills start kicking in, adding their damage. Specifically, the one that boosts grenade damage after a melee kill, and the one that adds a stick of TNT to the axe. Forget their names, and I’m on my mobile. So the trick is, after getting a melee kill, start throwing the axe until the kill skill wears off.
The Rough Rider negates the chance to down one’s self through StV by boosting your health up to where it should be if you were actually level 80. And adding damage reduction. But if you know what your doing, it’s not necessary.
something i need to clarify, is zer0’s melee overide skill affected by melee weapon bonuses like rapier?
I’m 99.9% sure it does. But again, I don’t play melee Zer0.
Huh. That’s interesting to hear. My comments were based off reading the wiki page on StV a while back, and also the top gear for Krieg guide on this forum. (You also hear the roid thud when you hit yourself). I know that StV itself does not increase the damage to oneself, but my understanding was that everything else does… Perhaps @Gulfwulf or @xmngr could bring their expertise on this issue?
with rubi i can see that when i use his melee overide skill i still get the heal from rubi’s effect even though he is not hitting them with rubi. but i herd in general that melee overide skills dont get all the benefits of normal melee attacks. i wish u can melee the training dummy in sanctuary
[quote=“malaphice, post:36, topic:1498923”] i herd in general that melee overide skills
Is StV a melee override skill? I figured it was just an alteration / enhancement.
Yes, it is: that’s why Rapier is so important for a ninja.
Also, about interaction between Execute and Like the Wind
Now, it’s an old post and I haven’t tested it yet but I’ve got 5 points in Like the Wind and I always make sure I’m running before an Execute.
Lastly, I’m sure you’ve heard nomads say “how does he move so fast?!?”
That’s the perfect title for a book on ninja Zer0.
I just did some testing and I stand corrected, roid damage doesn’t seem to apply. This is excellent news! I still favour the Rough Rider for dangerous situations like Digistruct though. But it’s probably the case that in Borderlands I rarely know what I’m doing…
Yep, switching to that Rapier for the Execute is crucial. It sends his damage through the roof.
Melee damage increases with the OP levels resulting in more melee damage done to yourself and enemies. StV being at a fixed rate but health not increasing results in more damage done to yourself the higher the OP level. StV is not a melee override but an alteration of melee. Basically just adds massive damage while giving you a 1/9 (roughly) chance of smacking your nose. Roid shields do not increase self damage either and the way the formula works for them on Krieg as well as Zer0 is completely different, making them a huge asset on Zer0, but not so much on Krieg. It’s always better to go with a health boost shield, preferably the Rough Rider than a roid shield. Only time i’d use Roid is when i’m trying to bloodsplode pete or if I want to be an idiot.
Thanks for the info! I hadn’t thought of using a roid shield for Bloodsploding Pete. I usually go for a Big Boom Blaster as it facilitates chucking tonnes of slag grenades, which usually works. Roid might be even more effective.
its an old post but valid still